I got into a great texting conversation with Kent Olmstead 3/2025, and he filled me in on the history of the very beginning of climbing holds (Mid 1980s). This conversation talks about companies: The Wall, Metolius, Sport Climbing Systems, 1988 Snowbird Championship, Vertical Concepts and Entre Prises.

Conversation with Kent Olmstead (March 2025) -

MK - Greetings! Do you still have any climbing catalogs?
KO - Sadly I don’t. I do have a few photos and only a couple original wall and rocks flyers. I’ve got photos of the original Sport Climbing Systems catalog. Alan Watts actually had some of this.
MK - It looks like the company Powroll was supplying hardware for The Wall. And Roks was a different company that was making screw on holds for the Wall. So did roks become Vertical Concepts?
KO - Both became VC after Sport Climbing Systems, Powroll was my parents motorcycle parts company and I answered the phones.
MK - What is Sport Climbing Systems? Sorry If I sound confused. Just seeking to dial in the beginning of climbing holds. Climbing mag has a great write up but still it leaves the reader with many questions toward, who was first in creation.
KO - No worries at all. The Wall (1986) and Rocks (1987), then Sport Climbing Systems (1988 - me partnering with Dan Goodwin, who then brought in Dale Bard - and we built all the flat panels and holds for the first Snowbird World Cup wall for Jeff Lowe…) led me to me and Dale forming Vertical Concepts (1988) after splitting with Dan (Snowbird drama). All of this based out of the Powroll factory in Bend. I built holds before Metolius because they focused on their version of the EP hex tiles. We both supplied product for Gary Rall’s earliest Portland Rock Gym.
MK - I am kinda seeing the same thing, as your company(s) predates Metilous but yet Metolius shows historically they were first. Also Passe Montagne says they were making holds in 1986. But when I look into Canada history, Canada first gym in 1990. It’s really cool that you were involved in the very very beginning of climbing holds!! Hmmm I’m going to have to adjust Holds history a little bit on the Karabin Museum. EP still overall first and has everybody beat by a year or two.
KO - Yep - Francois was the first. I was the first in the US. But just a blip. I actually left Vertical Concepts to another partner, Tim Wilkinson, finished my degree, then worked for EP USA with Alan Watts 1994-96. I ended up on the wrong side of an internal power struggle and outside the industry. I moved to Chandler in 1998 but still follow the climbing scene. I took a 20 year hiatus from climbing until my son Knowlton (Jasmine’s husband) got into it. Occasionally I’ll see a hold or two I carved still on the wall at PRG or Climbmax. Always fun.
MK - Did Metolius start making holds before Vertical Concepts? I have a Metolius letter showing 30 holds available March 1988.
KO - Yes. Because Vertical Concepts didn’t officially exist until after the Snowbird Competition in summer 1988. Dan Goodwin invited Dale Bard to be a partner with us in Sport Climbing Systems. Then he reneged on that offer because Dan wanted an even bigger percent of Sport Climbing Systems than he had. He was also a bit vilified by the wider climbing community. Dale Bard and I (Who had been building all wall panels in Bend Oregon while Dan was installing them in Utah) decided we’d form Vertical Concepts, leave Dan all of Sport Climbing Systems and start over. Me being the first to make holds in the US was all before Sport Climbing Systems and Vertical Concepts — even though VC is the company name most associated with me in the early days. But it was The Wall/Powroll in 1986 with wooden holds and then Roks Bouldering Bloks/Powroll 1987 resin screw-on holds (and used at the Portland Rock Gym original walls for his opening in Jan/Feb 1988 I think…) than predate Metolius making holds. I”m not sure when they started with holds, but summer 1988 seems about right, and that’s when EP brought holds to the US (at Snowbird — but Dan had negotiated an exclusive because we built all the flat panels for the wall for about $18,000.. and said he would take the wall down if they put a single EP hold on it… part of the behind the scenes drama).
KO - Chris Grover (Metolius, EP USA, then Black Diamond) remembers it differently, but when Alan brought the first modular holds we had seen back from Europe, and I was like “that’s way better than wooden blocks” and “are you guys going to build holds?” — the response was that they were going to build the tiles because they just thought it was a better product for climbers and holds would be too expensive and a worse climbing experience. I specifically asked if they were okay with me making holds and they said sure. Chris later indicated that they were always going to build holds — they just started with the tiles. Funny thing is that now I do all my “training” (conditioning really …) on big, multi-purpose holds. (Every holds is a mini-jug, side pull, undercling, pinch, plus a know on the corners…) I climb severl hundred feet equivalent in 3 - 4 sessions weekly. Then when I decide to climb with my kids and grandkids I’m actually decently fit to climb. If I’d only figured this out 40 years ago I might have actually been a better climber. I was so busy trying to stay in business making holds and walls that I ruined a good hobby for a few decades.

KO - One last tidbit of info for now you might find interesting. The original The Wall kit and plans shipping with computer generated boulder problems. It was early PC days and I was in a BASIC programming class at Central Oregon Community College (while also being newly married, just had our first son, trying to take over my dad’s motorcycle business Powroll, and be a climber and climbing gear entrepreneur with the trailing wall concept based off of a Colorade 4-sided woody featured in Climbing Magazine). I wrote a program that would pick a number of holds between 16 and 24, then randomly assign those to the grid, making sure there were at least 4 holds in each quadrant of the wall. The Kit would come with a printout of a few dozen “routes” you could just bolt up per the printout, they you’d start solving the problems. We hadn’t considered “route setting” as a thing back then really. Real rock presented the problems we had to solve. The randomized computer program was my attempt to just present new problems to try. In all the stuff that we build since then, those earliest experiences just bolting up wood blocks per the “randomized” pattern are still among the coolest ones. I envisioned it becoming the basis for a competition scenario: C.R.A.G Computer Randomized Ascent Games. C.R.A.G. became Cragwall, including my recent prototypes, but no commercial product as of yet. Maybe this year…
MK - Wow awesome info! Going back to the beginning, the kit you sold included some wood block screw-on hand holds? But the wall kit did not include and T-nuts for holds. I have you as first holds mfg in the USA for The Roks, but I am thinking this first holds may go further back to The Wall 1986.
KO - They were just 4” long 1x2” with two holes that bolted on the wall with 2 carriage bolts and wing nuts on the back. We didn’t even know something like a t-nut existed and actually envisioned inventing something like a t-nut… and we of course never contemplated a single bolt attachment because we just figured they’d spin… (so our invented version of a t-nut incorporate some locking mechanism…). To clarify - the holds were just 1x2” dimensional lumber - which is about 3/4” x 1 1/2”? … actual dimension. The classic 20mm edge of today’s finger board testing.
MK - I threw this together today, not finished or edited yet …..
KO - Very comprehensive. When I have a couple minutes I’ll suggest a couple small edits to consider. Very cool to see those photos of the Wall that sparked my initial ideas and effort.
MK - Sounds great. There are a few words within our texts that I think need to be changed, but need to ask you what you were wanting to say. Maybe spell correct put the wrong words there. Still working in Sport Climbing Systems, and including the Snowbird comp.
KO - Agreed. If you’ve got a target to get this done let me know and I’ll try to meet that. With work and family stuff it might be a couple days or so till I can give it some focus.
MK - No rush. I will occasionally throw questions at you as I go through it again. Mostly tweeting the writing.
MK - Was Sport Climbing Systems it’s own company, and Powroll was a different company?
KO - Powroll was my dads company started in 1964 that I was supposed to take over. 1980s recession was a tough time though. Sport Climbing Systems was the company I created with Dan Goodwin when he approached me from my Wall and Roks products. We were just working rent free from the Powroll facility. When Dale and I started Vertical Concepts after Snowbird (me giving you my ownership in SCS) - we worked rent free from Powroll as well and SCS had to move, I believe to Reno was where they set up. All I built for the Portland Rock Gym was before the formation of SCS, but we claimed that in the ads as SCS because that was the evolving brand. All of this was back to back to back over just a few months. I still have a hard time believing we actually built all the panels.
KO - Funny but true story, my wife's younger brother was in high school and was one of our panel builders. We ran out of money and I couldn't pay him. With all the ownership change, debt, and struggle to survive, I never did. And we still acknowledge it to this day even though at this point I could easily pay him and he's a long way from remotely needing the money. $350.
MK - The story was better to have then getting the $350, I love it! This is a original hold from the Snowbird 1988 comp. The Rock & Ice magazine #26 has a lot of Snowbird comp coverage. Wall is designed by FFKR Architects, Sport Climbing Systems is not mentioned, but right within the magazine story is a big SCS advertisement. Not sure if that was Editor planned. So FFKR framed the building for your panels? Then who made the individual bolt on climbing holds? SCS product as well?

KO - FFKR was the design firm Jeff hired and they build the three big features (swooping roof to slab, 2 big triangle-ish dihedral features. We built panels to their design shape and with the Idaho purple garnet sand that they specified (some panels lighter and some panels darker). I think the climbing magazine article about the comp might mention SCS and holds that broke and spun... The holds in the picture are very likely from 1989 2nd comp. The holds for the first comp were also purple-ish and built with resin and the purple sand. I can't remember if we used any pigments or if it was just the sand. Seems like there had to be some pigment, but I can't recall right now.
MK - The R&I article didn't mention spinning holds, but it does start to say "the rok holds the climbers were using.... and they spelled it rok. For the second Snowbird comp, were you involved in any way?
KO - I built a crack insert for one of the triangle features. It was a small finger crack section about 8' long. I never saw a picture of it installed, but was told that Isabelle Patissier popped out of in the prelims... I've always wanted to see if anyone has a picture of it. I built it using a reverse clay technique where I sculpted a clay mold (so a serpentine dike for a crack), sand blasted sand into the clay, then added resinous concrete and fiberglass for reinforcement. After the resin hardens then remove the clay and do some more sand blasting for what make a nice rocklike texture. Dale and I built a 2x2' panel wall that was probably 8 or 10' wide by about 12' high for a climbing shop in Colorado. That was one of the other "best" projects from a fun and memorable climbing experience with the finished project. The reverse sculpting wasn't precise like carving foam and then making a mold - so the finished product was full of interesting surprises in subtlety for both fingers and feet.
KO - One fact I did want to get into the conversation of history before I forget it - is that my brother Sean Olmstead was also a key figure in this early history. He was totally involved in helping me built the first prototypes and I thought we would build the stuff together but ultimately he went to work for Metolius and then Entre Prises. He was often the connection between Metolius and me because I was busy with Powroll and was married and just had our first child. He spent a lot more time at Smith Rock and climbing. Here's a journal screenshot from 1986 where I mention him climbing 5.12s, me failing on Wartley's Revenge 5.11b, and the prospect of selling a few walls from that Climbing ad. Sean went on to do a few FAs, most famously Churning in the Wake 5.13a - still a standard Smith testpiece for those working up the grades. Me...I never got back to Wartley's and that was my hardest lead attempt.
KO - Anyway, my brother Sean helped build the first The Wall prototype and is pictured in the ad. He brought the hold samples from Alan for me to look at - which then created the pursuit of building holds, panels, more realistic rock simulations. He helped me with my first silicone molds. He was more mechanical than me and a better climber. These days I think I should have added tons of big easy wood blocks to my early wall and I might actually have got fit and enjoyed climbing instead of the standard capitalist trope of ruining a good passion or hobby by trying to make a business out of it. Life is a journey (Smile).
KO - One more tidbit for now. This was me in a Bend Bulletin article when at Entre Prises, probably 1995ish. Besides being the CFO at EntrePrises (chief bookkeeper, getting mentored by Alan Watts who was also a great bookkeeper and very responsible for me eventually feeding my family in large part from bookkeeping) -- I was also doing product development and marketing activities. This in large part spurred the jealousies that lead to the coup that found me on the outside of the industry I helped start.

MK - What I have seen in climbing is that a person puts themself up against a challenge that is within uncertainty and fear. The person as they accomplish making moves on a route or climbs the route without a fall, feels euphoric self success! From this the climber now wants to give something back to “Climbing.” Here is Kent now making climbing holds for others. But here is Sean still not knowing how far his ability can personally go so he pushed on in the upper ratings. You mentioned that you may have been able to do harder rated climbs if you had applied yourself to working out more to become stronger. But that does not necessarily become true. I find that a person that has “The Want” is the person that most succeeds. The person who is working out to a extreme level soon leaves their sport because it is not giving them what they feel they deserve through their efforts they did. The super pro climber doesn’t deserve… they focus and send. So maybe don’t look back at yourself viewing you as a weaker climber. Look at the truth where you became one of the firsts in the world to make climbing holds, which now it’s like a billion dollar industry.
KO -  yep. history and perspective (and self or the collective, the monetary economy or the material actuality, temporal or spiritual or the intersect of all dimensions) are all interesting studies and fascinating aspects of our lived journeys. I've long been fascinated by the focus, effort, dedication, determination, etc. that can be applied to something like succeeding on a boulder problem or sport climb. And I've long decided that it is likely the faintest shadow of things we might accomplish as a human society with even a small portion of that focus, effort, etc. collectively applied. ...if it was just a little easier for all of us to get along. (so maybe wishful thinking ) So while I still wish I was a better climber (or had been), maybe a better entrepreneur, and definitely a better guitar player, singer, writer, and many other fun things -- you are right about the application to "The Want". A current "Want" - spread the benefits of climbing on a big-easy-wooden-holds spray wall. It's a blast to have more endurance than I ever did as a younger climber.  Thanks again for all your efforts.
MK - The Rock & ice coverage of Snowbird "does" mention That the panels were made by Sport Climbing Systems. It mentions that many contestants complained about the roks texture (holds). But no matter what EP holds were not used. Two cracks it says were created, but eventually taped off and not used to make the course more fair for all competitors. Right in the middle of the Snowbird Rock & Ice magazine story, there is a large pink Sport Climbing Systems ad, and a few pages later is a Vertical Concepts ad.
KO -  Curious if that was the 1988 comp (first comp) or 1989 (2nd comp)? My crack would have been for 1989. I sort of recall maybe those triangles had an original simple parallel crack that would definitely have been a challenge for a lot of the Euro or just sport climbers. Or I'm just inventing that in my mind. The crack I built for the 2nd year would have actually been pretty easy I think (though maybe not for smallest fingers). And I only built one that I remember... interesting.
MK - This is the 1988 story, 2 cracks. So Vertical Concepts and Sport Climbing Systems were both involved with the 1989 Snowbird comp?
KO - I only recall the crack I made for 1989. I imagine we would have supplied some holds. There's a whole Dale Bard backstory I need to review timing on as the early Vertical Concepts days we were so broke from taking on the Sport Climbing System debts that Dale got an opportunity to go rig for Star Trek V. Bob Carmichael that did the 1988 filming for Wide World of Sports was also 2nd Unit producer for Star Trek V and invited Dale to rig. So that had Dale leaving me alone to run VC and ultimately he never made it back and eventually vacated his partnership in VC (which when I left, ended up with Tim Wilkinson, a partner, ex brother-in-law, friend - who grew it to about $1M before going bankrupt -- you've got a lot in your museum and archives related to Tim's significant contribution to VC - Krimpers, Real Rok panels, etc. -- we still touch base every few years -- he's an engineer in Portland, OR where he was originally from)

KO - I don't know if SCS was involved in the 1989 Snowbird. I'm also not sure on the timing of my other Jeff Lowe interactions - as he flew me to Boulder to meet with him and Jean Marc-Blanche to potentially develop Jeff's line of climbing wall panels. Ultimately I wasn't involved in that, but those were interesting times. I reconnected with Jean Marc-Blanche when I was at EP from 1994-1996. We contracted with him to design the Seattle REI sculpted concrete wall. That was in process when I resigned from EP in the kerfuffle.
MK - Rock & ice 1989 does mention that 2 cracks were used on the routes. Christian Griffith was routes designer. No mention of any wall company mfgs. The 1989 holds look purple as well. So not sure what colored holds Cats gym has - being from Snowbird. I decided to put this overall history conversation of ours in Powroll The Wall section. I was going to put it into the SCS section since we talked a bunch about Snowbird, but the SCS section feels like it was somewhat dominated by Dan Goodwin. So how did it feel having Dan Goodwin as a partner? By that Snowbird time Dan was very well known climbing 8 buildings already and climbing into 5.14- range. Basically a force of one presently in his mission, and you were ... there.
KO - He was/is a very interesting person and a force for sure. I was (and still am) desperate for collaboration vs solo endeavors in most things (though I did a bit of easy solo mountaineering in the Cascades and at Smith up to 5.9 -- a bit overly romantic, and eventually facing my mortality on that hand jam at the crux of Spiderman 5.8 for the second time ended the romance, though fortunately not me...) In any case - when Dan showed up at Powroll (I think maybe just showed up - maybe had called and we'd made an appointment... no internet, email, or cell phones back then) -- I was definitely star struck and enthusiastic about the potential. I wasn't in the local Smith scene enough (or wider climbing community) to know that Dan had a reputation as a self-promoter (before today when all the top climbers have to do a bit of self-promotion), possibly stretching the truth about accomplishments (but definitely not in his mind). He also really, really loved to pose - see the ads and a lot of other coverage. He really wanted his life story in a movie - about the Chicago Fire Department Chief having a vendetta against him and wanting to spray him off the building, etc. I'm a dreamer and have always had delusions of grandeur so none of that really bothered me. Ultimately though, when he got out of touch with some business realities, waived opportunities for diplomacy (maybe allow some EP holds for the opportunity for our actual contribution to be recognized rather than vilified), build some goodwill instead of illwill, but mostly when he wouldn't honor giving Dale some ownership after he'd proven his dedication in getting all those panels built -- and wasn't satisfied that I'd given him and his girlfriend 2/3 of the company to my 1/3 (that's how desperate I was for collaborators - gave up controlling interest) - and wanted Dale's ownership to come out of my 1/3 only... ("We're not sure our 67% is even enough after what we've gone through...") -- I had to move on. The only debt we asked him to pay was the catalog printing bill (since he got all the catalogs) but he never did. So...it was quite the time. I'd personally like to reconnect with Dan o though really don't know how he'd welcome it. Hasn't felt right enough to do it.
MK - Jim Bridwell personally told me to "not make people your hero's." After I contemplated his words for a few years I then understood. Now when I am with a superstar person, it's usually a humble conversation that we have. We carry no expectation with each other. Maybe once I have the climbing holds history further dialed in, then you can say hello to Dan and use my website as a platform to get the conversation going. I noticed he has a website link that leads to a inspirational book he created.
KO - That's good wisdom from Jim. I met him at one of the Outdoor Retailer shows. Also met John Bachar and Todd Skinner at that same show. We built a wall (probably 1989 or 1990) for the show (got paid about $5000 I think). Dale had moved on by this point, but Tim and I were building the wall right up until just enough hours to drive to the show the night before. We stayed up all night assembling it with one of their scissor lifts. We'd invited EntrePrises USA to build one of the 4 sides because we probably wouldn't have had enough money to build all 4 sides. EP installed their panels the next morning and we all hung out for the next couple of days of the show. Sure wish I had some pictures of that. (Dale and I had built a very small wall for the Sportiva booth the year before (basically the original The Wall but with VC modulars) -- and that got us connected with Margaret Brady of OR who got us the $5K budget for the next year wall sponsored by OR.
MK - I notice that roks has a "TM" next to the name. You let Dan have the Sport Climbing Systems company and in the SCS ad Roks are still mentioned (Roks now capitalized). You moved on to forming Vertical Concepts, but still have roks as Rok Bux in Vertical Concepts. Both you and Dan continued with Roks?
KO - I was wondering about that recently - partly from reading your history a few months back (or almost a year ago?...) when Alan Watts was asking questions about the early days (he gets asked to speak about it fairly regularly I guess). What I think is that Sport Climbing Systems only lasted a couple of years after the split and that Tim (or Tim and I both...) was okay taking the name back. I don't recall having a formal agreement with Dan (either a partnership agreement or dissolution) - though there might have been something. I'd forgotten until reading on your that the early VC holds were called "Dots" -- which was Dale's idea since we'd sent the Roks name with Dan. We made all the original holds with a circle base - thus "dots" (and I think some people described climbing on modulars as dot-to-dot climbing...so maybe that influenced it as well...anyway, Dale's idea and it was good with me). I don't think the use of Roks was ever simultaneous. Dan never made a legal challenge, and in the end, VC went bust as well.
MK - I really appreciate you putting some time into this history. Of course as history is, there's always something that will be added to it as the future years see fit. But for now your stories totally Rock! I'm psyched that the updated history is coming from the Karabin Museum website. Soon let's get a cup of coffee and further refine the story.